AI Literacy with Dr. Shannon Kane
RIF’s VP of Literacy Programs & Research and podcast host Erin Bailey talks with literacy expert Dr. Shannon Kane about the growing role of artificial intelligence in literacy education and her path from international development to higher education. They explore practical and ethical uses of AI in classrooms, address equity and training challenges, and reflect on how thoughtful engagement with technology can support reading, writing, and creativity.
About Dr. Shannon Kane:
Shannon M. Kane, Ed.D., is a literacy education leader at the University of Maryland whose work centers on teacher preparation, professional growth, and K–12 literacy instruction. With a background spanning international development, classroom teaching, school leadership, and research, she holds a doctorate from the University of Pennsylvania and studies critical literacy, technology integration, classroom discourse, and identity in literacy learning.
Subscribe and listen on Apple podcasts
-
00:00:00.273 --> 00:00:02.943
Erin Bailey: Welcome everyone to Reading Inspire's podcast.00:00:02.943 --> 00:00:16.713
Today I'm chatting with Dr. Shannon Kane, who is a good friend and former colleague of mine at the Inspire Teaching Demonstration School in Washington DC and today we're gonna be talking about AI and literacy.00:00:16.713 --> 00:00:23.223
So welcome, Shannon, if you can start by sharing about your story, how did you get into education and literacy?00:00:23.838 --> 00:00:29.448
AI because I've known you for a while, but AI is new to all of us, so I'd love to hear how you got into it.00:00:30.243 --> 00:00:30.753
Shannon Kane: Sure.00:00:30.753 --> 00:00:31.383
Thanks Erin.00:00:31.383 --> 00:00:32.583
I'm really excited to be here.00:00:32.613 --> 00:00:37.413
So I got into education, I would say in a sort of a unique path.00:00:37.470 --> 00:00:42.750
I actually, when I graduated college, I thought I was gonna work in international development in public.00:00:43.290 --> 00:00:43.740
Health.00:00:43.765 --> 00:00:47.455
I went and pursued a master's degree, a joint degree in the, in that field.00:00:47.455 --> 00:00:49.945
And I started to work sort of internationally in education.00:00:50.315 --> 00:00:54.755
as we know, things can change quickly, both internationally and domestically.00:00:54.755 --> 00:01:03.874
And so I was sort of redirected to continue my interest in education sort of a different path, and an opportunity, opened up here in dc.00:01:03.964 --> 00:01:10.566
That I was able to take advantage of and sort of turned my focus to K 12 education, here in the States.00:01:10.566 --> 00:01:21.906
Became a teacher and worked as a classroom teacher, bilingual teacher for about five years before I went and pursued my doctorate in literacy at University of Pennsylvania.00:01:22.646 --> 00:01:26.816
And knowing that I still always wanted to work with teachers and kids, I did a couple of different things.00:01:26.816 --> 00:01:37.436
That's where our paths connected when I was doing some work at the Inspire Teaching School and eventually found myself in higher ed in my current role as a assistant clinical professor at the University of Maryland.00:01:37.436 --> 00:01:56.996
So that's sort of how I. How I came to education and in terms of ai, honestly, a colleague of mine and I were sitting around just sort of
thinking about, you know, AI and hearing teachers talk about it and you, I feel like you can't get online without seeing ads for AI and teachers.00:01:57.116 --> 00:02:03.836
And we were just talking about how we use it ourselves and we're wondering, you know, how.00:02:04.256 --> 00:02:10.436
How can we use it as professionals to support our roles as teacher educators, but then also.00:02:11.541 --> 00:02:12.891
What is our responsibility?00:02:12.891 --> 00:02:30.318
How can we ethically and critically support our teachers, pre-service teachers, and even our in-service teachers, sort of, exploration and use of ai, not only as professionals, but then as they looked to support their own students use of ai.00:02:30.318 --> 00:02:33.978
And so we started a self study and it sort of has, has grown from there.00:02:33.993 --> 00:02:37.893
collecting data, doing a lot of research on it, doing PD on it.00:02:37.968 --> 00:02:42.198
And it's just sort of continues to grow as AI does00:02:43.808 --> 00:02:47.558
Erin Bailey: Makes a lot of sense because you work with pre-service teachers.00:02:47.558 --> 00:02:49.808
Everything is new in education to them.00:02:49.808 --> 00:02:50.250
Right.00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:51.090
Shannon Kane: Absolutely,00:02:51.480 --> 00:02:51.840
yeah.00:02:52.140 --> 00:02:58.145
And honestly, even in inservice teachers as well, I think AI is very new to them, and so yeah.00:02:58.855 --> 00:03:00.985
Erin Bailey: It's new to e it's new to everyone.00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:08.005
Do you feel like pre-service teachers are, because they're more digital natives, are they more comfortable using ai?00:03:09.230 --> 00:03:12.410
Shannon Kane: Actually it's the opposite, which we find completely fascinating.00:03:12.410 --> 00:03:14.510
So we've done a, we've done a bunch of in-service.00:03:14.510 --> 00:03:22.989
So our most recent in-service, we worked with about 85 teachers this past August, around ai, and everyone in the room uses it to varying degrees.00:03:23.849 --> 00:03:27.869
Their understanding of it, their comfort with it obviously varied tremendously.00:03:27.869 --> 00:03:30.029
There's been no formal training on it.00:03:30.359 --> 00:03:33.089
They just sort of, it's kind of like the wild, wild west, right?00:03:33.089 --> 00:03:34.499
Figuring it out themselves.00:03:34.889 --> 00:03:36.599
Um, but they're all in on it.00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:38.559
They love the efficiency of it.00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:40.929
They wanna know more about it.00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:51.159
Whereas our pre-service teachers, I think because of the age that they are, a lot of them have been hearing there's this sort of like, taboo around ai, right?00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:57.159
And so they've been hearing, you know, it's cheating, it's bad, it's this, it's, it's, you know, if, if you're caught using it.00:03:57.180 --> 00:03:58.080
and so.00:03:58.364 --> 00:04:01.964
They tend to be a little bit more sort of cautious about it.00:04:01.992 --> 00:04:06.252
when in, you know, one of my courses we talk like, Nope, we're gonna use it intentionally.00:04:06.372 --> 00:04:08.952
And they're like, wait, like you're letting us use it?00:04:08.952 --> 00:04:10.572
And I'm like, well, I'm not just letting you use it.00:04:10.572 --> 00:04:13.032
Like we're gonna learn about it together.00:04:13.032 --> 00:04:13.162
We're gonna.00:04:13.432 --> 00:04:16.462
Critically, you know, evaluate the responses.00:04:16.462 --> 00:04:17.632
When should we use it?00:04:17.632 --> 00:04:18.952
When is it not helpful?00:04:18.952 --> 00:04:28.732
And so, but yeah, it, I assumed the same thing that our pre-service teachers would be all about it, and they actually are a little bit more cautious, which I appreciate.00:04:28.783 --> 00:04:37.963
but it's definitely coming from, I think they're just constantly have been bombarded since they were in high school and stuff that it's cheating, it's bad, you're gonna be caught.00:04:37.996 --> 00:04:38.896
so yeah, it's00:04:38.896 --> 00:04:39.346
interesting.00:04:39.400 --> 00:04:51.634
Erin Bailey: I was just thinking that too, as you were saying that because they're pre-service teachers and many of them are undergrad
students, they've really just come from high school where it's been drilled into them perhaps that it's cheating and it's wrong.00:04:51.964 --> 00:04:57.094
So then going into a new landscape of college and teacher training and now.00:04:57.449 --> 00:04:59.279
They're being challenged to use it.00:04:59.301 --> 00:05:01.281
I can see why they would be cautious with it.00:05:01.494 --> 00:05:10.764
I'm wondering from the teachers that you worked with, the 85, you said 85 in-service teachers, what were some of the common ways that they were using ai?00:05:10.764 --> 00:05:10.824
Um.00:05:12.149 --> 00:05:28.409
Shannon Kane: They were using it from simple things like helping with emails, you know, and responding to everyone's favorite report card comments to some of, I would say the more advanced users were using it for some differentiation, right?00:05:28.409 --> 00:05:33.698
So supporting multilingual learners, maybe differentiating some texts, some text.00:05:34.303 --> 00:05:44.994
Tasks, trying to maybe infuse a little bit of creativity here and there, but to be honest, a lot of it was really surface level, I think because there has not been a lot of formal training.00:05:44.994 --> 00:05:51.774
So our goal for the session was really to give them some little bit of background understanding so they could walk away with knowing.00:05:52.444 --> 00:05:58.640
About the tools that they were using and to see them really as tools, and that they still were in charge and the professionals.00:05:58.932 --> 00:06:05.322
and then also just some, you know, transferable things that a little bit beyond that surface level.00:06:05.580 --> 00:06:08.190
you know, we sort of showed them how they could create.00:06:08.380 --> 00:06:12.467
Very simple, games that students could play online.00:06:12.467 --> 00:06:21.587
You like have the, have the AI do the coding for them to instant translators to, you know, different fluency, you know, things.00:06:21.587 --> 00:06:24.527
And we were really working with groups across elementary and secondary.00:06:24.527 --> 00:06:31.426
And so, I would say that most of the teachers were using it for, again, that surface level, which is a great start.00:06:31.694 --> 00:06:35.984
but I think without a lot of intentional training and support, I think that's what you really.00:06:36.449 --> 00:06:37.799
Would expect from folks.00:06:37.837 --> 00:06:45.997
and they're just starting to sort of see the potential in, you know, scaffolding, differentiation, student choice, et cetera.00:06:46.812 --> 00:06:48.342
Erin Bailey: I think I'm there with them.00:06:48.342 --> 00:06:58.392
I'm, for me currently as a AI user, I'm at the surface level, haven't gotten that deep, and mostly I'm doing things right now that I think would be time savers for me.00:06:58.782 --> 00:07:04.062
Or take away tasks and allow me to focus more on other tasks.00:07:05.037 --> 00:07:06.777
Shannon Kane: A hundred percent, which is a great use of it.00:07:06.777 --> 00:07:07.167
Right.00:07:07.187 --> 00:07:13.446
you know, because, and we, we lay that out with our pre-service teachers as well as our, as the in-service teachers in that, you know.00:07:13.861 --> 00:07:15.211
There is so much work.00:07:15.211 --> 00:07:18.481
There's like, you could work nonstop as an educator and still have more to do.00:07:18.481 --> 00:07:18.811
Right?00:07:18.811 --> 00:07:36.751
And so if you can lean on AI to, to help, to be efficient, to knock out some of the lower level tasks and create space for you to focus on the, the tasks that require the knowledge about students or the, the differentiation or the harder or heavier lifts.00:07:37.081 --> 00:07:37.351
Right.00:07:37.356 --> 00:07:37.616
That's great.00:07:37.941 --> 00:07:46.521
So you've saved time and you are able to focus on the sort of longer lever or the, the tasks that are really gonna push student learning further,00:07:48.106 --> 00:07:51.431
Erin Bailey: So here's an experience that I've had recently working with.00:07:51.521 --> 00:07:52.961
Foundational skills.00:07:52.991 --> 00:07:58.571
as a teacher, when I taught phonemic awareness and phonics, I did a lot.00:07:58.571 --> 00:08:04.740
I paid attention to the mouth shape, you know, pronouncing the sound and the mouth shape.00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.380
I'm working with a colleague on training.00:08:07.625 --> 00:08:18.635
AI and video AI to be able to do this because currently you can, you know, have an AI avatar, but it doesn't seem that the technology is sophisticated enough to match the mouth00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:19.260
Shannon Kane: Mm-hmm.00:08:20.156 --> 00:08:22.316
Erin Bailey: the sounds and even training it in the sounds.00:08:22.316 --> 00:08:23.876
And we all have different dialects.00:08:23.876 --> 00:08:28.252
So if I'm the teacher, the phon names would need to be, in my dialect.00:08:28.252 --> 00:08:36.442
So I'm wondering if you've seen anything or had any experience in AI supporting those foundational reading skills.00:08:37.112 --> 00:08:44.109
Shannon Kane: So I think, I mean, it can definitely, for early readers and those foundational skills, I think AI is continuing to evolve, right?00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:52.712
I think that, you know, as you mentioned, with growing sort of advancements with video recognition and even sort of dialect and, there's.00:08:53.016 --> 00:08:59.574
Also been AI work done with, especially with multilingual learners, sort of, supporting with like accents and things like that.00:08:59.574 --> 00:09:02.394
So, I mean, that is again, continuing to evolve.00:09:02.394 --> 00:09:13.126
But I think in general, the fact that, you know, there are speech recognition tools now, that can support, which again, doesn't have the visual sort of cues, which is important.00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:29.660
But if, if we know it's a matter of just practicing the sounds and the student has that sort of, let's say the teacher's done sort of the
initial assessment and knows that the student is making the sounds with proper mouth placement and such, and they just need practice, right?00:09:30.020 --> 00:09:37.100
You have the speech recognition tools where students are reading aloud and there is that immediate feedback around pronunciation around.00:09:37.225 --> 00:09:37.855
Fluency.00:09:37.902 --> 00:09:40.461
there's a lot of games and interactions, right?00:09:40.461 --> 00:09:47.877
Where, and again, this is something that is, it's once you learn how to do it in terms of, having the AI do the coding.00:09:47.877 --> 00:09:51.267
And what's nice about it is it produces games that are.00:09:51.357 --> 00:09:52.587
In a closed system.00:09:52.587 --> 00:09:54.387
So you don't need the internet.00:09:54.387 --> 00:09:58.407
It's not a at cost thing, which again goes to equity as well.00:09:58.737 --> 00:10:08.877
You know, students can do a lot of the matching of the sounds, can repeat sounds, can do a lot of the pH segmentation and replacement and deletion, right?00:10:09.154 --> 00:10:12.814
and so, and again, it's at their pace, but it's also interactive and game-like.00:10:12.814 --> 00:10:18.724
And so while these are not necessarily anywhere near replacements for that initial instruct.00:10:20.014 --> 00:10:23.104
and they're not sort of universal solutions for all.00:10:23.104 --> 00:10:30.904
It's definitely another avenue that allows students to sort of do some independent practice in this low pressure environment.00:10:31.094 --> 00:10:34.394
and we all know that repetition is key with these foundational skills.00:10:34.394 --> 00:10:45.164
And so it's just another, another way to get that repetition in a way that hopefully students won't be bored, they're engaged, and allows them to build those early literacy skills.00:10:45.575 --> 00:10:46.505
Erin Bailey: I was thinking that too.00:10:46.580 --> 00:10:52.595
A, a repetition that's fun and engaging because if it's just repetition, then it feels like a burden, a task.00:10:53.205 --> 00:10:54.855
Students aren't going to be interested in that.00:10:54.855 --> 00:11:04.575
But the way you're describing it, if the teacher does the initial instruction and the student just needs more practice and repetition, it's actually a engaging way.00:11:04.575 --> 00:11:11.265
And I, I feel like if I were the teacher in this scenario, I might even say something to the student like, you're helping train this system.00:11:11.655 --> 00:11:17.221
And by you interacting with the system, you are becoming the teacher, to the, to this AI tool.00:11:17.941 --> 00:11:18.181
Shannon Kane: Right.00:11:18.181 --> 00:11:22.471
And the other thing too is when we think about sort of like small group work or that repetition work, right?00:11:22.471 --> 00:11:30.031
There's that fine line between work that's reinforcing skills and helping students move towards mastery and sort of busy work.00:11:30.254 --> 00:11:34.385
and we know the importance of, being able to work with students in small groups are one-on-one.00:11:34.385 --> 00:11:35.825
And then what is everyone else doing?00:11:36.305 --> 00:11:48.916
But one of the things that AI has really created an opportunity for is it really allows for you to create these very targeted, Intended differentiated sort of opportunities of repetition and practice in game form for students.00:11:49.186 --> 00:11:52.786
That literally takes like seconds, if not minutes, right?00:11:52.786 --> 00:12:00.466
Like so, and allows you now to create these very targeted opportunities, game format for students.00:12:00.556 --> 00:12:06.076
And if we think about the amount of time that would've taken to do by hand or cutting or pasting, right?00:12:06.076 --> 00:12:08.326
Like now all of a sudden like.00:12:08.711 --> 00:12:12.371
It, it would, it's great in, in theory, but I just don't have the time or space to do it.00:12:12.371 --> 00:12:14.351
But AI has really opened that space.00:12:14.351 --> 00:12:30.920
So it's like, I've taught my whole class these skills and so now I know this group needs to practice this and this group needs to practice this, and I'm gonna work with this
group, and everyone's getting what they need, in this, again, you know, low stakes, having fun, interactive opportunity to sort of reinforce through repetition and practice.00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:32.610
Erin Bailey: That's great.00:12:32.641 --> 00:12:47.971
well, I know you're an expert in writing instruction too, so I wanted to make sure I asked you how, AI can help students at the beginning
phases of writing, like generating ideas, planning and organizing their writing and helping them think through the writing process.00:12:49.266 --> 00:12:49.536
Shannon Kane: Great.00:12:49.536 --> 00:13:01.108
So, I mean, I think this is a great question 'cause I think this is probably one of the areas where, you know, people assume plagiarism or you know, that AI is doing the work.00:13:01.108 --> 00:13:04.078
But I think it's great because balance is really everything.00:13:04.528 --> 00:13:05.308
So.00:13:05.601 --> 00:13:12.051
the best use of AI would really be sort of a nudge for students and not a crutch, right?00:13:12.576 --> 00:13:15.396
So just similar to as teaching, right?00:13:15.396 --> 00:13:16.866
We wanna teach students writing.00:13:16.866 --> 00:13:18.216
We don't fix their writing.00:13:18.216 --> 00:13:25.536
And so, you know, with AI, it can offer anything from visual prompts to graphic organizers to sentence starters, right?00:13:25.536 --> 00:13:27.636
So all of that brainstorming, right?00:13:27.636 --> 00:13:36.116
So I. One of the challenges is, and one of the reasons why students often most get, get frustrated the most is you know, they're staring at that blank page.00:13:36.116 --> 00:13:36.356
Right?00:13:36.356 --> 00:13:37.916
Like, they don't have an idea.00:13:37.916 --> 00:13:39.236
They don't know where to begin.00:13:39.236 --> 00:13:40.196
They're overwhelmed.00:13:40.196 --> 00:13:40.406
Right?00:13:40.406 --> 00:13:42.536
It's like that paralysis by analysis, right?00:13:44.061 --> 00:13:49.161
And so when they sit with you, they're able to brainstorm and bounce ideas off.00:13:49.581 --> 00:13:56.871
And depending on the age of the students, sometimes older students can do it with a partner, but we know younger students, you know that partner work can be hard, right?00:13:56.871 --> 00:13:59.781
Developmentally, that it's not necessarily.00:14:00.486 --> 00:14:05.676
Doesn't come natural to them, and it's not in their wheelhouse, but AI can be that partner, right?00:14:05.676 --> 00:14:09.754
Like you can't always sit next to every student, that needs help brainstorming and help them.00:14:09.754 --> 00:14:11.644
But AI can be that tool, right?00:14:12.491 --> 00:14:16.901
you know, it can create from structured planning templates to like, you know, having it.00:14:17.306 --> 00:14:20.756
Have the student work through who the audience is or what happens next, right?00:14:20.756 --> 00:14:27.296
So it's that metacognitive planning and idea generation, but it's actually not doing the content generation.00:14:27.296 --> 00:14:27.626
Right.00:14:27.626 --> 00:14:33.176
So, you know, in some ways it's truly that scaffolding that we envision right outside of a building.00:14:33.176 --> 00:14:36.806
And it's, you know, the, it's supporting the building as it's being built.00:14:36.806 --> 00:14:40.736
Well, here we can use AI to really create that scaffolding for our students' writing.00:14:41.266 --> 00:14:48.196
The student's still generating the content, but the AI is helping them to create that content versus creating it for the student,00:14:49.296 --> 00:14:51.586
Erin Bailey: Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to think of a example.00:14:51.586 --> 00:14:52.726
So a really popular.00:14:53.495 --> 00:14:58.445
writing prompt, at least when I was teaching for third graders, was to rewrite a fairytale, right?00:14:58.445 --> 00:14:59.915
And you could change the setting.00:14:59.915 --> 00:15:00.845
The characters the prompt.00:15:00.845 --> 00:15:13.816
So if I'm a student and I am bouncing off ideas with my ai, language agent, and I say, you know, I really like, aliens and AI says, how about Goldilocks and the three aliens?00:15:13.816 --> 00:15:17.056
Or, you know, I'm making up a scenario, but from your experience.00:15:17.821 --> 00:15:26.226
Do students still feel like they have agency, and do they feel ownership of that when they are generating ideas together with ai?00:15:27.886 --> 00:15:29.176
Shannon Kane: I think they can, right?00:15:29.176 --> 00:15:31.756
I think it's also the what's next in the process, right?00:15:31.756 --> 00:15:36.256
I think having then the students reflect on their use of the tool, right?00:15:36.256 --> 00:15:37.666
Like what did they find helpful?00:15:37.666 --> 00:15:39.046
What didn't they find helpful?00:15:39.046 --> 00:15:41.086
Because there's going to be other things.00:15:41.596 --> 00:15:53.686
The AI may suggest that you're like, I mean, anyone who's maybe used AI for email or like giving feedback or, you know, people sometimes forget that even if you use Grammarly, Grammarly is now all AI use, right?00:15:53.686 --> 00:15:58.576
So when it's making suggestions for your writing, sometimes you're like, oh, that's a great suggestions.00:15:58.576 --> 00:16:00.466
But other times you're like, no, who would write like that?00:16:00.466 --> 00:16:01.606
Or, that doesn't sound like me at all.00:16:01.606 --> 00:16:01.906
Right?00:16:02.706 --> 00:16:05.406
So we need to teach our students to do that as well, right?00:16:05.406 --> 00:16:09.463
That not every suggestion or nudge by the AI is, good.00:16:09.463 --> 00:16:13.363
And so, but having students sort of decide, well, why didn't you like it?00:16:13.363 --> 00:16:20.798
Well, I didn't like it because it didn't, it wasn't really what I meant, or I didn't like it 'cause it didn't sound like me or I didn't like it 'cause it was.00:16:21.193 --> 00:16:27.583
Silly or lame or whatever, you know, stupid, you know, whatever the, whatever a elementary student would say, you know, to that response.00:16:27.583 --> 00:16:34.617
And so I think it's, getting them to reflect on the tool, is really then what ensures that they have that agency, right.00:16:34.617 --> 00:16:35.547
And that they have that voice.00:16:35.577 --> 00:16:36.237
'cause they're in control.00:16:36.237 --> 00:16:38.127
You don't have to take every suggestion.00:16:38.192 --> 00:16:41.192
I mean, and I think as teachers modeling that, right?00:16:41.446 --> 00:16:55.366
when I give feedback to students, you know, or when I've received feedback, I don't, I don't have to take every piece, but it's that
sort of why am I intentionally choosing not to incorporate that piece of feedback or why I am intentionally choosing to incorporate it?00:16:55.366 --> 00:16:58.936
It's that I think that really gives us our voice and agency, right?00:16:58.936 --> 00:17:03.346
Like when I have that choice to make that decision, our students still have that choice.00:17:03.346 --> 00:17:05.896
We just have to emphasize and underscore that with them.00:17:05.896 --> 00:17:06.796
And the same happens.00:17:07.896 --> 00:17:09.846
When you, the teacher give written feedback, right?00:17:09.846 --> 00:17:21.615
There are some things that yes, spelling, maybe we, if it's a word that they should absolutely know, we may be like, check that on the
word wall, and you expect them to spell it correctly, or, you know, if it's a skill around punctuation that they know, yes, you expect it.00:17:21.615 --> 00:17:24.525
But other than that, you may just give more open-ended suggestions.00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:33.050
And so just like with teacher feedback, you don't have to take all pieces of feedback from ai, but it's the why you are taking it or why you're not taking it.00:17:33.050 --> 00:17:37.730
That I think is an important step that we can't skip to ensure that students do have that agency and voice.00:17:38.625 --> 00:17:47.715
Erin Bailey: Yeah, I, I can even imagine this as, you know, you thinking of your traditional writing unit and one interactive writing lesson could be you, my.00:17:47.715 --> 00:17:56.985
Modeling how you're interacting with AI in your own writing and, and doing a think aloud of, Hmm, I'm not going to use this because it doesn't sound like me.00:17:56.985 --> 00:18:01.665
I liked the way I wrote it before, or, uh, yes, that sounds a lot better.00:18:01.665 --> 00:18:03.135
You know, help me think about this.00:18:03.135 --> 00:18:09.018
So I think that's, really important to model that for students so that they can start to do it on their own.00:18:09.811 --> 00:18:10.291
Shannon Kane: Absolutely.00:18:10.291 --> 00:18:13.051
And then again, it becomes a tool and it's not just a replacement.00:18:13.051 --> 00:18:13.471
Right.00:18:13.471 --> 00:18:25.741
And, and understanding that, and we do that all the time as adults, and we need to do that modeling and that metacognition, whether we're writing with a traditional pen, whether we're writing on a, you know, computer, whether we're using ai.00:18:25.741 --> 00:18:26.401
And so.00:18:26.654 --> 00:18:27.524
it's just really important.00:18:27.524 --> 00:18:28.934
We can't skip that step.00:18:28.934 --> 00:18:35.004
If anything, I'd argue it's more important with a tool like ai, because again, we want it to be a tool.00:18:35.244 --> 00:18:36.474
We want it to be a nudge.00:18:36.564 --> 00:18:37.674
It's not a replacement.00:18:37.674 --> 00:18:39.414
It's not a crutch, it's not a shortcut.00:18:39.714 --> 00:18:47.124
And showing students that when you use it as those things, it's really problematic because it doesn't produce accurate stuff all the time.00:18:47.124 --> 00:18:48.144
It's not always.00:18:48.399 --> 00:18:52.869
The best written work, you're sometimes you read it and you're like, that's really awkward.00:18:52.869 --> 00:18:55.239
Like no one would write or talk like that, you know?00:18:55.299 --> 00:18:57.429
And so students need to see that and understand that.00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:01.339
Erin Bailey: And it's a way to introduce plagiarism too.00:19:01.339 --> 00:19:04.574
It's a, it can actually be a non-example and lead to a lesson, I'm think.00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:17.029
Of this was, this was before ai, but I had a student teacher once who was writing with a student and she, and he was writing a book about pandas and the title of the chapter was Growing Up Small or Starting Out Small.00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:22.879
And she said, oh, starting out small, that's a great title for your chapter on Panda Babies.00:19:22.909 --> 00:19:27.649
And he said, yeah, it's such a great title that this author did it in this book.00:19:29.565 --> 00:19:30.615
he had clearly.00:19:30.885 --> 00:19:35.955
Plagiarized and she kind of looked at me like, oh my gosh, like what do I do now?00:19:35.955 --> 00:19:38.535
You know, she's a student teacher, so this is her first time in the classroom.00:19:38.535 --> 00:19:44.145
And I said, no, actually this is a great way to introduce plagiarism to that student.00:19:44.145 --> 00:19:48.525
And I can see that too, with how to introduce plagiarism with ai.00:19:49.530 --> 00:19:49.770
Shannon Kane: Absolutely.00:19:49.770 --> 00:19:53.235
And then also thinking about it as we think about mentor texts, right?00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:53.650
Like so.00:19:53.850 --> 00:19:56.640
Sometimes we use mentor texts as examples, right?00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.680
And sometimes we use them as non-examples.00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:01.560
And the same can be true with AI as a mentor text.00:20:02.055 --> 00:20:02.655
Erin Bailey: That's great.00:20:02.956 --> 00:20:04.966
I wanna return to something you mentioned earlier.00:20:04.966 --> 00:20:06.256
You mentioned equity.00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:13.419
I'm sure many teachers, you know, we're all working at different schools, different families, children coming from different backgrounds.00:20:13.419 --> 00:20:20.859
So what are some of the equity considerations that schools and teachers should keep in mind when they're introducing AI literacy tools?00:20:21.889 --> 00:20:23.899
Shannon Kane: Well, I think equity is obviously crucial.00:20:23.899 --> 00:20:34.399
I mean, in all things, but especially here because if it's meant to be a tool to sort of create access points and supports, we wanna ensure that all students have those access points and supports, right?00:20:34.399 --> 00:20:34.764
And so I think.00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:41.789
I think the first thing is, or a key thing is that schools, ensuring that AI is accessible on multiple devices, right?00:20:41.789 --> 00:20:47.819
Whether they, you know, that includes working offline or low bandwidth or, and, and the availability of in different languages.00:20:48.185 --> 00:20:55.085
we had a student panel recently, it was last spring, and it was fascinating because it was students from local high schools in different counties.00:20:55.175 --> 00:20:59.588
And one of the students says, you know, I come, uh, you know, the county that my school is in is very affluent.00:20:59.588 --> 00:21:00.818
My school is very affluent.00:21:01.563 --> 00:21:05.498
But the decision at the time was to ban an ai, and he was like, well, that's all fine and good.00:21:06.368 --> 00:21:08.408
But only on school computers.00:21:08.408 --> 00:21:12.548
He's like, but all of us that have our own computers, we can get it whenever we want.00:21:12.878 --> 00:21:22.028
So he's like, so for myself and my peers, okay, you can ban AI use on school devices, but we can also access our school accounts from our personal devices, which have no bans.00:21:22.423 --> 00:21:28.603
but he's like, any students that are reliant on the school devices are now already in an unequal footing from us.00:21:28.603 --> 00:21:30.643
And this was from a student in high school.00:21:30.643 --> 00:21:32.323
So they're very aware of these things.00:21:32.323 --> 00:21:33.313
And so again.00:21:34.568 --> 00:21:42.398
If the policy is just to ban it outright, because as adults we don't know how to figure out how to teach it critically and reflectively and ethically.00:21:42.848 --> 00:21:46.928
Well, we're, are, we are creating an, an inequity, an inequitable situation by that.00:21:46.958 --> 00:21:51.698
so I think again, it's, if you're gonna have it accessible, it should be on all devices.00:21:51.698 --> 00:21:59.648
It should be on, you know, offline, low bandwidths, et cetera, and realize if you're banning it, you are creating an equity situation.00:21:59.677 --> 00:22:01.327
I think the big thing is teacher training.00:22:01.705 --> 00:22:02.155
Right.00:22:02.155 --> 00:22:15.985
And so, again, because if one, stu, if a group of students happens to be in a class with someone who's very comfortable and familiar with it, their experience is gonna be very different than someone who may have no idea how to use it and avoids it.00:22:15.985 --> 00:22:16.375
Right?00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:19.900
and we, again, it's not just about having access to the tools.00:22:19.900 --> 00:22:21.850
We want the tools to be used critically.00:22:21.850 --> 00:22:24.100
We wanna reflect on the tools, et cetera.00:22:24.335 --> 00:22:25.835
just not tossed in the classroom.00:22:25.835 --> 00:22:29.075
And again, like the wild, wild west of, of the internet, right?00:22:29.450 --> 00:22:31.760
And another thing, another thing is in parents, right?00:22:31.790 --> 00:22:34.760
That I think that contributes to the equity question as well.00:22:34.790 --> 00:22:42.248
you know, having, making sure families understand it right and support how it can support learning, sort of demystifying it.00:22:42.452 --> 00:22:50.942
because like many of our pre-service teachers, I'm sure that a lot of the messages that parents are hearing, you know, maybe on it's bad, it's cheating, et cetera.00:22:51.392 --> 00:22:54.092
And so I really think that if we want.00:22:54.687 --> 00:22:56.457
Equity to truly be considered.00:22:56.457 --> 00:22:57.507
It's about access.00:22:57.507 --> 00:23:00.927
It's about understanding the use of the tool and agency, right?00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:10.185
that all has to be present if we're really going to ensure that, you know, AI is not for some, is not just available for some, mm-hmm.00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:12.489
Erin Bailey: that's really powerful.00:23:12.489 --> 00:23:19.179
coming from a student as you were talking, I was thinking we've also navigated, somewhat navigated this road before, right?00:23:19.179 --> 00:23:30.369
I, when I first started teaching, it was around the time when smartphones came out and there were the first iPads and everyone was kind of confused about what to do then.00:23:30.369 --> 00:23:30.729
Like, oh,00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:31.219
Shannon Kane: Mm-hmm.00:23:31.674 --> 00:23:39.526
Erin Bailey: Band, smartphones and iPads in the classrooms or you know, and then some of the more progressive schools was everyone had one-to-one tablets.00:23:39.526 --> 00:23:44.806
So we have navigated these waters similar waters before, and we can learn from that.00:23:46.726 --> 00:23:47.266
Shannon Kane: Absolutely.00:23:47.446 --> 00:23:48.766
I mean, I think that's huge, right?00:23:48.766 --> 00:23:50.716
And the same thing, even like the internet, right?00:23:50.716 --> 00:23:53.236
Like when the internet was first coming, you know, coming around.00:23:53.236 --> 00:23:56.836
I think it's sort of like, hopefully we're learning from what we did.00:23:56.836 --> 00:24:03.646
Well and then, and even just thinking about, you know, when COVID came about, how we as schools had to pivot right?00:24:03.646 --> 00:24:05.836
And go to sort of online learning, right?00:24:05.836 --> 00:24:13.846
There were aspects of it that we did really well, and there were aspects that were not done well and or like highlighted some areas that we needed to fix.00:24:14.286 --> 00:24:23.076
So hopefully we're learning from those, you know, past sort of either technological integrations and advancements and then, you know, global pandemics.00:24:23.346 --> 00:24:26.316
And so hopefully we can take from that.00:24:26.316 --> 00:24:32.796
And again, listen, because I thought it was incredibly powerful to have these high school students point that out.00:24:32.796 --> 00:24:42.516
Like, hey, my school district decided to ban it, which is all fine and good, but everyone that has their own device has access to it and we can use our own devices.00:24:43.186 --> 00:24:44.386
To access school stuff.00:24:44.386 --> 00:24:49.696
So really you're only banning it from a group of students based on socioeconomic status.00:24:49.696 --> 00:24:54.496
And to hear that come from the mouth of high school students, I'm like, anyone else could have said that.00:24:54.526 --> 00:24:56.536
And I don't think it's anywhere near as powerful.00:24:56.536 --> 00:24:58.876
So like, let's listen to the kids in this case.00:24:59.101 --> 00:25:00.331
Erin Bailey: Yeah, absolutely.00:25:00.653 --> 00:25:09.593
so thinking about different learners, different backgrounds, what, what have you found is the best way for AI to reach a wide range of learners?00:25:09.593 --> 00:25:12.803
I know you have ex. Sense of work with multilingual students too.00:25:13.568 --> 00:25:15.908
Shannon Kane: I mean, I think that's one of the, the, the.00:25:16.898 --> 00:25:18.698
Cool things about ai, right?00:25:18.698 --> 00:25:20.258
Is this adaptive learning?00:25:20.258 --> 00:25:24.938
And I think, you know, the early iterations of it were those like assessments, right?00:25:24.938 --> 00:25:27.128
The online assessments and adaptive learning.00:25:27.406 --> 00:25:34.175
but I think the fact that it can, can be used in teaching and not just assessments is really helpful and powerful.00:25:34.442 --> 00:25:40.322
I think, you know, for multilingual learners, like just the translation, like real time translation.00:25:40.542 --> 00:25:54.861
from oral language, you know, for, and as thinking about like the growth of, multilingual learners, like, so I work in the state of Maryland, and you
know, obviously there are some counties within the state that have a larger population of multilingual learners and so therefore have more supports.00:25:54.861 --> 00:25:57.441
But at this point, there's no county in the state.00:25:57.801 --> 00:25:59.931
Doesn't have at least one multilingual learner.00:25:59.931 --> 00:26:06.441
And as we can think about, you know, counties where the population is much lower, but growing, like resources are catching up.00:26:06.441 --> 00:26:13.581
And so to be able to use AI for translation, real time instantly, visual supports, bilingual dictionaries, right?00:26:13.623 --> 00:26:25.466
just for it to be able to effectively allow for differentiation, the fact that you can put into AI a prompt involving WEDA levels and literally have it generate work for first.00:26:25.866 --> 00:26:26.616
Students.00:26:26.646 --> 00:26:32.256
and again, these are things that, that teachers are ultimately tasked with doing, but take time.00:26:32.406 --> 00:26:45.516
And again, if you're a teacher who's just starting to get multilingual learners in your class or maybe have not had, you know, a student from this level before, like, these are things that again, can, can be amazing resources.00:26:45.786 --> 00:26:48.786
But I also think of other learning differences with students.00:26:48.816 --> 00:26:53.649
Um, you know, from text to speech, speech to text, pacing, just this.00:26:54.074 --> 00:26:59.324
Responsiveness, um, not only to the learner's needs, but also to instruction.00:26:59.654 --> 00:27:07.934
It really does create so many multiple entry points to content in different ways, which again, is like the true essence of differentiation, right?00:27:07.934 --> 00:27:16.124
Like if we're, if differentiation, we're thinking about across content, process, product, classroom, environment, and assessment, right?00:27:16.184 --> 00:27:19.844
AI can really help with all, with most of those things.00:27:19.844 --> 00:27:20.474
Maybe not.00:27:21.134 --> 00:27:24.194
Classroom environment a little potentially like if we think of listening.00:27:24.501 --> 00:27:31.641
but yeah, so the fact that it can support teachers and students across all of those categories, I think is huge.00:27:32.126 --> 00:27:41.666
Erin Bailey: Yeah, and I'm thinking also how great the translation services are for families and getting messages home families, and it might not be perfect.00:27:41.806 --> 00:27:42.006
Shannon Kane: Absolutely.00:27:42.261 --> 00:27:44.843
Erin Bailey: it might not be perfect, but it's better than, you.00:27:44.843 --> 00:27:48.353
As the teacher trying to mime something to a, a family.00:27:48.353 --> 00:27:48.623
Right.00:27:48.623 --> 00:27:50.363
It's gonna get you at least halfway there.00:27:50.853 --> 00:27:55.413
Shannon Kane: Or relying on students to do translations, which I think can be unfair and awkward.00:27:55.413 --> 00:27:55.773
Right.00:27:55.773 --> 00:27:57.933
And so, and they are getting better.00:27:57.963 --> 00:28:06.287
Like it, the accuracy of not only are like the mistakes and hallucinations in stuff like chat GBT or a Gemini.00:28:06.487 --> 00:28:09.817
Drastically lower in these new versions that have just come out.00:28:10.177 --> 00:28:13.645
But the translations, are getting incredibly accurate.00:28:13.669 --> 00:28:18.949
and so, like you said, it may not be a hundred percent perfect, but it's definitely getting the idea across.00:28:18.949 --> 00:28:22.639
It's absolutely better than not translating and respecting home languages.00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.104
And it's certainly better than relying on a small student to do the translating between two adults.00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:28.789
Erin Bailey: I've done it before.00:28:28.879 --> 00:28:29.569
Guilty of00:28:29.699 --> 00:28:30.029
Shannon Kane: Yep.00:28:30.419 --> 00:28:31.169
Oh, I have too.00:28:31.199 --> 00:28:31.349
What?00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:32.849
Absolutely right.00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:34.739
Like you can't get someone on the language line.00:28:35.015 --> 00:28:38.435
and it's a language you have not to speak and like you have to in the moment.00:28:38.435 --> 00:28:43.235
And so it's like, like you said, miming small child, like you're using anything possible.00:28:43.235 --> 00:28:51.785
But now that you have this another, another tool and the fact that it's all, and the fact that most of these are also now on your phone, so it's not even like you have to awkwardly carry your laptop around.00:28:51.785 --> 00:28:52.685
It's a game changer I00:28:52.685 --> 00:28:53.075
think.00:28:53.405 --> 00:28:54.245
Erin Bailey: Yeah, for sure.00:28:54.545 --> 00:28:56.225
this has been wonderful, Shannon.00:28:56.225 --> 00:29:07.535
I wondering if you think about, I, I was gonna say in the next five years, but honestly, AI is evolving so rapidly, I'll say in the next one or two or three years.00:29:07.535 --> 00:29:16.805
What emerging AI capabilities do you think or hope will have the biggest impact on K through eight students to learn to read and write?00:29:17.660 --> 00:29:17.990
Shannon Kane: Hmm.00:29:18.050 --> 00:29:18.890
That's a great question.00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:21.885
I think one thing that you already mentioned is just the visual, so.00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:30.100
Training AI to, to be able to recognize, you know, mouth placement and sort of how you make phony value, the, the phone names and stuff.00:29:30.464 --> 00:29:33.464
I think that goes along with this idea of like multimodal ai.00:29:33.500 --> 00:29:37.700
and so again, the text, the speech, the visuals, right?00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:40.640
Like, so it's almost like a holistic learning environment.00:29:40.874 --> 00:29:45.074
the fact that that's changing at such a huge pace, I think is so exciting, right?00:29:45.074 --> 00:29:46.604
Because at like.00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:50.789
When that multimodal environment is, is sort of complete.00:29:51.139 --> 00:29:52.099
like think about it.00:29:52.099 --> 00:30:02.179
So you could have this AI system, it could listen to a student read, at the same time it could pop up sort of vocabulary visuals, right?00:30:02.509 --> 00:30:08.239
And then students can write and illustrate based on their own drawings, like write almost instantly, right?00:30:08.239 --> 00:30:09.379
And the other thing.00:30:10.214 --> 00:30:25.340
That I think would be really helpful and sort of a game changer for teachers as well is, sort of, and AI is sort of inter, is becoming more and more integrated into sort of assessment planning and, you know, within closed systems.00:30:25.340 --> 00:30:31.284
So school districts, have the opportunity to sort of integrate AI in different ways for like goal tracking and stuff.00:30:31.284 --> 00:30:33.684
But one of the things that is sort of still.00:30:34.314 --> 00:30:39.984
On the near horizon is this idea of like longitudinal, progressive, pro progress tracking, right?00:30:40.314 --> 00:30:52.284
So it's not just about like right or wrong answers, but being able to see like how comprehension and sentence sort of like, let's say like writing structure and writing process grow over time, right?00:30:52.284 --> 00:30:53.964
So imagine if as a teacher.00:30:54.894 --> 00:31:06.054
You had sort of a co-teacher, in AI that could really help you sort of point to, growth over time of a child's comprehension or growth over time through writing, right?00:31:06.054 --> 00:31:11.004
If I mean to have that tool as, as, as a teacher, right?00:31:11.244 --> 00:31:14.004
I mean, talk about then being able to personalize, learn.00:31:14.142 --> 00:31:17.052
and so I think that those are two areas, right?00:31:17.052 --> 00:31:22.962
So that multimodal, um, capability and it's definitely, it's sort of there on the fringes now.00:31:22.962 --> 00:31:32.448
Like each of those tools exist, but really able to put them together and to really seamlessly and make it in a simple user, user-friendly way.00:31:32.778 --> 00:31:38.868
The other thing too that we're still, while some of the bias that we know exists within AI in writing form.00:31:39.178 --> 00:31:39.928
Has been addressed.00:31:39.928 --> 00:31:46.288
There's still a lot of issues and research being done around the bias, around images and stuff that AI produces.00:31:46.549 --> 00:31:52.819
and so that's an area that we know we need to improve on before we start really integrating all of that, like multimodality.00:31:52.849 --> 00:31:53.779
But it's possible.00:31:53.893 --> 00:31:54.193
it's.00:31:54.388 --> 00:32:05.248
AI is learning as is, and I think it, it will continue to learn and improve if we as sort of the masterminds, the pilots, the people in charge of it, want it to improve, right?00:32:05.248 --> 00:32:11.788
So I think as people were like, Hey, it's a problem that it's biased or producing inaccuracies, then therefore.00:32:12.573 --> 00:32:13.623
They've improved that.00:32:13.683 --> 00:32:13.953
Right.00:32:13.953 --> 00:32:28.713
And so I think, again, if we are critical consumers and so like, Hey, I have a problem with the biased and the prejudice and some of the image productions and we want it to be more accurate and call that out, it'll continue to improve, right?00:32:28.713 --> 00:32:30.693
And so I'm, I'm hopeful for that.00:32:30.693 --> 00:32:38.963
And again, the, as it gets smarter, for it to help teachers again, just make their practice for individual students stronger, that's what I'm looking forward for.00:32:39.431 --> 00:32:42.421
Erin Bailey: Yeah, I mean I, all of that gets me really excited.00:32:42.421 --> 00:32:46.651
But I think the key that you were describing is that AI is still learning.00:32:47.131 --> 00:32:49.291
We know it's bias, but as the.00:32:49.561 --> 00:32:57.541
Teachers of ai, we have the opportunity to untrain it, unbias it, train it to not be as biased, right?00:32:57.541 --> 00:32:59.581
And that comes from all of us having input.00:32:59.581 --> 00:33:02.551
So, and I think that goes back to equity too.00:33:02.737 --> 00:33:07.657
empowering students to know that they are teachers and trainers of AI as well.00:33:07.657 --> 00:33:12.423
And the more feedback they input into it, the better it will become for all students.00:33:13.653 --> 00:33:14.193
Shannon Kane: Absolutely.00:33:14.223 --> 00:33:17.463
I mean, it's one of those things if, if it is, if we value that, right?00:33:17.463 --> 00:33:25.083
If we want our tool to be less biased, to be more accurate and all that well, we have to give it that feedback and call it out and not accept it.00:33:25.497 --> 00:33:34.203
and so I think the more we do that and the more research that's continued to be done on it and to call that out and to name it, the better the tools will continue to evolve.00:33:34.233 --> 00:33:36.603
If it's not something we don't value or don't see.00:33:36.974 --> 00:33:38.744
that it's important, then it won't.00:33:38.744 --> 00:33:40.874
But, I, you know, and I think you're, you're spot on.00:33:40.874 --> 00:34:08.132
It is an equity issue and we need, we need to continue to focus on that and, you know, uh, hopefully create the, the strongest tools possible that are, that are grounded, in, you
know, in areas of equity and, you know, intentionally, Avoid issues like with bias and inaccuracies and things like that, but that's where that critical reflection and use comes in.00:34:08.132 --> 00:34:11.312
If we just accept it blindly, we're never gonna improve those things.00:34:11.702 --> 00:34:12.842
Erin Bailey: Yeah, absolutely.00:34:13.162 --> 00:34:15.322
so this podcast is called Reading Inspires.00:34:15.322 --> 00:34:19.582
So I always like to end by asking our guests, what does Reading inspire for you?00:34:20.317 --> 00:34:21.697
Shannon Kane: Oh, this is such a tough question.00:34:21.757 --> 00:34:27.457
so I think for me, reading inspires creativity, connection, and courage.00:34:27.937 --> 00:34:28.027
So.00:34:28.717 --> 00:34:29.617
Creativity.00:34:29.617 --> 00:34:32.797
I think it's hard for me to not get excited when I read.00:34:32.827 --> 00:34:35.617
'cause it's just, it's this storytelling, right?00:34:35.617 --> 00:34:38.917
It makes me think a new way or question or spark imagination.00:34:38.947 --> 00:34:39.337
Right.00:34:39.684 --> 00:34:45.744
the connection is that, you know, if you and I read the same book that sort of spark an excitement that we have.00:34:46.014 --> 00:34:47.064
also I feel connected.00:34:47.064 --> 00:34:51.624
Like if I read fiction, like historical fiction or just history to others, to my past.00:34:52.219 --> 00:34:54.409
So there's just that, just the connection to everybody.00:34:54.409 --> 00:35:02.509
And then really, ultimately around courage, because hopefully that's, that's that critical piece, right?00:35:02.509 --> 00:35:07.039
Like that critical literacy piece that I hopefully, you know, reading it.00:35:07.441 --> 00:35:16.261
Inspires myself and others to em to have empathy to speak up and ideally work towards change when we, we aren't happy with things, right?00:35:16.261 --> 00:35:28.021
Because, you know, stories and readings show us what's possible and hopefully the courage to sort of live our own and speak into our truth and our voices, and so gives me hope.00:35:28.351 --> 00:35:29.941
So I guess all of those things.00:35:30.136 --> 00:35:30.496
Erin Bailey: Yeah.00:35:30.526 --> 00:35:34.966
Very hopeful and thank you for this inspiring and hopeful conversation.00:35:34.996 --> 00:35:36.136
Dr. Shannon King.00:35:36.502 --> 00:35:37.312
Shannon Kane: Thank you so much.
Did you enjoy this podcast episode?
Listen to inspiring conversations with Reading Is Fundamental and discover how we're championing children’s literacy across the country. Check out our other podcast episodes right here.